This probably is why people cheat for no real gain

It would be interesting to know why the one thumbs-down below the initial post. Is it someone who thinks computer game culture cannot twist a person's self-image in any way? I've played so much of them myself that I know there's a risk of being totally hooked and losing interest in any real-world achievement. In fact, I just had to quit playing them altogether (again) because of that.

I also didn't explain what I mean by "real gain". All morality aside, I understand why someone would cheat to get money. But to cheat on lichess where it makes no real difference anywhere in the real life, that was beyond me. I think it has to be the same shallow sense of achievement you get when you chop wood in Skyrim and get a badge for that.

So you're saying that people never cheated before computers? The only reason they maybe did less of it is because it was harder to do; but there have always been Crooks in the game.

I didn't say that, no. My point - well it's really all there.

@dorkomplet said in #1:
> Chess is seen as just another online game, and using mods and cheats is therefore OK.

I don't think cheating in video games is ok, but yes, it does seem more accepted there. (Most popular video games are non-free, in which case it's a big mistake to play them in the first place.)

@dorkomplet said in #11:
> It would be interesting to know why the one thumbs-down below the initial post. Is it someone who thinks computer game culture cannot twist a person's self-image in any way? I've played so much of them myself that I know there's a risk of being totally hooked and losing interest in any real-world achievement. In fact, I just had to quit playing them altogether (again) because of that.
>
> I also didn't explain what I mean by "real gain". All morality aside, I understand why someone would cheat to get money. But to cheat on lichess where it makes no real difference anywhere in the real life, that was beyond me. I think it has to be the same shallow sense of achievement you get when you chop wood in Skyrim and get a badge for that.

Mods in Skyrim is completely different thing than cheating in online multiplayer games. Cheating in online games has never been ok.

Anonymity is a huge factor, you can get away with it. And there's also this culture of trash talking that has migrated from other online games to chess community. If someone is better than 90% or 99% of the players, somebody even better will come and say that's nothing. Mix that with fragile egos and it's a disaster.

@Sybotes said in #8:
> I still don't understand it considering SHORT time consequences! Your arguments are again all moral; man is weak and can't resist the temptation etc. - but the question is: why is there a temptation at all that lures some people to cheating? That's what I can't understand. Even if there were no danger of being discovered and if cheating wouldn't be considered inhonest: I could see no reason why I should do it - let a machine calculate moves and enter them in the Lichess GUI. How can that be fun?
>
> But obviously it IS fun for some people, because I am aware that cheating exists. That's what I found interesting about @dorkomplet's original question.

I don't think there needs to be any 'temptation' or driving force for people to cheat in on-line games. If it's easy to do, some will.

Historically in the UK, some very minor offences have carried the death sentence on conviction - this was even in the days when the accused wasn't allowed a any sort of legal defence. Didn't stop people committing the minor offences. It's one of the main planks against the modern day Death Penalty for crimes - btw, I happen to believe the Death Penalty should be reinstated for some crimes, justified by retribution only.

The difference between US and THEM is acquired moral judgement. Sadly societies have moved away from allowing individuals to express moral judgements and thereby develop wisdom in favour of expressing 'off-the-shelf groupthinks', which often require no thinking at all!

@dorkomplet said in #1:
> I've been thinking about this for maybe a year now
there are better things to think about

@dorkomplet said in #11:
> It would be interesting to know why the one thumbs-down below the initial post. Is it someone who thinks computer game culture cannot twist a person's self-image in any way? I've played so much of them myself that I know there's a risk of being totally hooked and losing interest in any real-world achievement. In fact, I just had to quit playing them altogether (again) because of that.
>
> I also didn't explain what I mean by "real gain". All morality aside, I understand why someone would cheat to get money. But to cheat on lichess where it makes no real difference anywhere in the real life, that was beyond me. I think it has to be the same shallow sense of achievement you get when you chop wood in Skyrim and get a badge for that.
I disagree with your claim, hence the thumbs down. People get happy by winning. They cheat and win. So they are happy. And so they cheat more.

Their only motive is demon like pleasure by which they like wasting time of others and they can do it all day.
Note that every one is born with same type of system, and their actions and what they see make them do certain things.

@dorkomplet
Maybe there is something about your interesting thoughts.

If you'd go deeper in your search, I'm pretty sure you would find gamers that play games with different difficulty levels in their games; recruit, veteran, superstar, etc; talking about Call of duty, NHL and others like these.

On the other hand, I'd be surprised that you find cheaters in those you play The Dark Souls series, kind of, where there is no such level; you win or you are destroyed!

So when they arrive in chess, the Call of duty fellows react the same way when they play a Dark Souls; they go on YouTube to find cheats to beat the game!

;)